Eyy keldoras hat mehr oder weniger vestanden worum es geht, im Endeffekt ists mir relativ egal, ob ein Spec tod ist oder nicht, solange er spielspaß bringt. Problem ist das dieser Fix in Kombination mit dem Runenproblem den Frost mehr als nur useless machen wird. Nicht jeder hat Lust AfkUh mit orangener Waffe zu spielen deswegen ist es denke ich mal in IInteresse von vielen, die Dk spielen, den Spec nicht komplett trashig stehen zu lassen
Ich gucke mal ob ich mehr zum Rime-Procc via Mh bzw den Runen mehr finde

1up at Suthocid

Update:

Der Fix zu den Todesrunen redmine.rising-gods.de/issues/15627 scheint nun schonmal zu funktionieren und wird ab dem 02.03 auf dem Liveserver aktiv sein.

Schließt der fix "Meister der Todesrunen" z.b. beim Uh und dem Bloodtank mit ein?

Der Fix betrifft erstmal nur db.rising-gods.de/?spell=45529

Gibt es vllt einen Link, der eig beweist, dass Tötungsmachine nur durch Mh proccen sollte? Oder ist das ein "Rg-Fix" ? Mfg

redmine.rising-gods.de/issues/17795

der link ist bei der beschreibung

Mucho Mercy, durch Handy nicht gesehen.

Rushor schrieb:


+

Weitere Quellen die ich nun gefunden habe:

Wait, is this real?

It isn't a fix. KM was *specifically* design not to proc off of both weapons, and only MH, so as to not weigh heavily in favour of DW over 2H.

Afaik KM hasn't procced off offhand attacks since ulduar. I don't think one could call it a bug fix it's more like a buff. Wich leaves me clueless as to why blizzard would do this when you look at the explanation of the Might of the Frozen Wastes nerf.

Exactly.

It was * explicitly* explained that KM would be MH only so as not to be too big a buff to DW over 2H.

eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2226276182

Aus einer 4.x Diskussion zum damaligen Wotlk Stand

+

weitere quellen:

blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/10236-killin...ugged-gc-plz-review/

We originally talked about letting the MH and OH both proc but at different rates (Windfury does something like this). Then we became convinced that dual wielding by DKs would probably still be good even without the OH procs from Killing Machine. Now it is just main hand procs at a frequency of 5 per minute.

PPM is a statistical average, so you will see a lot of variation unless you test for a long time. But we'll keep an eye on this thread and the talent itself to make sure.

+ weitere quelle:

www.mmo-champion.com/threads/924756-Why-...ne-not-be-written-in

change to KM wasnt a bug fix it hasnt procced off Oh hits since ulduar

fashoin to how Killing Machine is going to work now.

Mathematical Formula:

PPM / (60 / WS) x 100 = % Chance of Killing Machine Proc'n.

PPM = Procs Per Minute
WS = Weapon Speed

So, if your swinging a nice big two handed weapon with a 3.5 weapon speed it would look as follows:

5 / (60 / 3.5) x 100
5 / 17.14 x 100
.2917 x 100
29.17% Chance

Let's take a look at a faster 1 handed weapon.

5 / (60/2.4) x 100
5 / 41.6 x 100
.1201 x 100
12.01 % chance

For DW, what this means is a calculation for EACH weapon to get their total chance. As can be seen... if you are DW two weapons of the same speed your at a slight disadvantage over a Two hander.

Now, keep in mind that most frost builds will be running Icy Talons which will bring your % down since your weapon should be moving a bit faster (Compare 2H vs 1H). So, Icy Talons now works against Killing Machine.


und auch das hier:
It has been - or rather is being - discussed over at EJ how the PPM system for KM will work.
Until we have (empirical) evidence to disprove this thesis we will make the assumption that:
- KM works similar to Maelstrom Weapon (Shaman Talent)
--> Each Weapon - either one 2Hander or each of the two 1hander - has its own PPM.
- PPM is set to 5 per Weapon as a base value (max rank talent)

Procs per hit = Weapon speed * Procs per minute / 60 (source: wowwiki.com)

Assuming fast/fast:
1.6 * 5 / 60 = 13.3% Proc chance on HIT with both weapons
Which is on average a proc every 6 Seconds (60 seconds / 10 ppm is also 6 seconds per proc).

The Speed of the Weapon will not change the frequency of how often KM procs it will just alter the variance.
Meaning with f/f you will get the KM procs more regularly while with s/f or s/s they will be slightly more irregular, but over the course of a 5 Min fight you will have the same number of KM procs no matter what weapons you use (as long as its two of them).

Since KM only procs of autohits it will just scale with hit and haste.
Lets look at the effect of Imp. Icy Talon's 25% haste and add another 5% from gear/aura/etc:
For f/f we calculated 13.3% proc chance on hit. Now that we hit 30% faster its simply (wepspeed*(1-haste)/proc on hit%)/2 = (1.6*0.7/0.1333)/2 = 4.2 seconds. KM procs every 4.2 Seconds with 0% Miss.

Now for miss etc..
Dual wielding adds a 19% miss penalty to both main and offhand weapons. The base miss rate for all characters is 5%, so each weapon by itself has a 24% chance to miss (19% + 5%). Another 3% when hitting raidbosses due to defense imparity.
Nerves of Cold steel give you 3% hit so its 24% Miss on Bosses with 0 hit.
Assume you have 328 Hitrating which is 10% you still got 14% Miss chance left.
(wepspeed*(1-haste)/proc_on_hit%*(1+miss%))/2
=(1.6*(1-0.3)/0.1333*(1+0.14))/2 = 4.8 seconds.

So KM procs on average every 4.8 seconds with just selfbuffs and some hit gear (its btw around 12.5 PPM after haste and hit compared to 10 PPM before that).
In case KM doesnt work like Maelstrom Weapon (only 5 ppm instead of 5 PPM per weapon) it will be every 9.6 seconds.


Right now KM with two 1.6 speed weps and the same gear (assuming 35% crit) would proc every (1.6*0.7/0.175*1.14)/2 = 3.65 seconds, so its a nerf of about 25% less procs. (unless you got like 50% crit )

Conculsion:
- Yes its a nerf but well, 25% less KM procs isn't all that bad
- It allows us instead to use any combination of slow and fast 1h weapons with almost no penalties
- It shifts our stats focus from crit more into direction of hit and haste.
- In case its really only 5 PPM total it would be a severe nerf of over 60% less procs...

Die Quelle von dir ist dabei eu.battle.net/wow/de/forum/topic/1549665811 welche sich auf die posts von www.mmo-champion.com/threads/629399-killing-machine-proc beziehen welche vom 2009-01-09 sind. Im Anschluss darauf kam aber blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/10236-killin...ugged-gc-plz-review/ am 2009/01/23 mit:

We originally talked about letting the MH and OH both proc but at different rates (Windfury does something like this). Then we became convinced that dual wielding by DKs would probably still be good even without the OH procs from Killing Machine. Now it is just main hand procs at a frequency of 5 per minute.

by Ghostcrawler